I have an essentially different emotional reaction to statements by the authors and creators of source material than I do to fanworks. JRRT’s famous statement pleases me, and gives me warm fuzzies, but I do not think that without it I would refrain from writing fanfic. I can’t know this for certain, because I was aware of that statement before ever writing my first fic, but I don’t believe it would have made a difference. The same goes for others who approve of fanworks of their material– I get a kick out of knowing that they know and like the idea. Those who disapprove, however, often upset me not because of their disapproval but because of the way that disapproval is often voiced.

I find it fascinating that for so very many of us, the catalyst for our own first ventures into writing and posting fanfic is *not* the source material, but another fanwork! It was certainly so in my case, when I read Lulleny’s “The Prodigal Took”. I loved the story, but felt that it ended too soon, and was inspired by that to continue on with what could have happened next. Fortunately for me, raw newbie that I was, the only thing I knew to do with it was to ask her if she’d like to see it. I had no idea how to post to an archive at the time. And also fortunately for me, she was gracious enough not only to read it, but to beta it and explain to me what I needed to do to get it posted. Looking back now, I realize just how gracious that really was, as I am sure that the ambiguity of her ending was intentional, and my own continuation of it was rather fluffier than her taste.

But it was her graciousness that stuck with me, and I know that for me, the essence of participating in fandom is to encourage others in the same way.

I’ve only been part of a couple of remixes, and enjoyed the experience very much, although I was slightly disappointed in one that the remix of my own story did not make more changes than it did. I actually would have *liked* to see some of my assumptions challenged.

But I am always rather puffed up to recognize when other writers have borrowed elements I’ve created for “my universe”. Of course, I like it when there’s attribution (I’m vain that way) but I also like it when there’s not, because that means my idea has entered into that area of fanon that is so widely accepted that few know the origin of it.

In only one case can I recall being upset with such a borrowing without attribution. Perhaps it was because of who did the borrowing, since I don’t care for her work as much as she seems to for mine, or perhaps it was because it was a co-written story from which she borrowed (making it not just my own idea that was appropriated) or perhaps it was because the idea was so unique (a rarity in fanfic), or perhaps it was the way she used the idea, or maybe a combination thereof.

But however ticked off it made me, I would never have called her on it. I write fanworks, she writes fanworks, it’s hypocritical for me to object to the use she makes of my stuff. I’ve mentioned it to a friend or two in private, but I’d never dream of making a public kerfuffle of it!

The truth is, we fanfic writers riff off one another all the time– that’s how fanon is born, after all.

I consider it polite and gracious to acknowledge the debt we owe not only to the creators of our common sources, but also to our fellow creators of fanworks that inpsire us. But there is a difference between good manners and making a “rule” of some sort.

That’s just me, I guess.

For a few examples of remixing, I’d recommend this amazing website: http://remix.illuminatedtext.com I’ve read around there a while ago and found it very fascinating. Though, I think for a remix truly to make sense a reader should know which story is being remixed. Otherwise it’s only half the fun. So I suppose remixes should be always accredited or the whole idea doesn’t make sense.

Yes, that’s a completely different basket of eggs and not at all what I understand “remixing” to be. I wish the original post had been clearer on how they’re defining remixing, but oh well.

From a creative standpoint, I haven’t much respect for people who do that period. I’ve seen a few Tolkien fanfics that lift whole passages or extensive exchanges of dialogue from the books. If I wanted to read that, I would just read the original.

If it’s done without attribution to the source, then it’s plagiarism, pure and simple. And even fair use–which I stand by in my own choices about how to use other creators’ works–would not cover borrowing 75+% of an author’s work. I know the one site I write for allows up to 50 words, quoted, though I suspect that is an intentionally conservative estimate.

I had to ask what a ‘remix’ meant, and it turns out that a remix uses around 75% or the original material in the original author’s own words, but has a different ending and intent. This makes me a little uneasy, even though the new material and gist of the story are the secondary author’s unique work.

Randy (assuming this is the infamous Randy_O) gave an excellent example of a cinematic remix on his forum: The Magnificent Seven remixed from The Seven Samurai.

Infamous — that would be me! Another example would be the movie ‘Cruel Intentions’ based on ‘Les Liaisons Dangereuses’, or ‘The Outrage’ which is based on ‘Rashoman’. I’d call that more of a homage — same plot, new setting, and we all recognize the story. I find stories like that very entertaining, whether the copyright on the source material has expired or not, which in the case of the two Japanese movies, it hasn’t.

A good question, and you’re right. It’s not one that is easily resolved. But I guess I’m looking at fannish circles as being social networks versus the realm of copyright and patent law.

I always ask if I like the person and don’t want to burn bridges, but I have written at least one serious story as a critical answer to an author who would happily see me run over by a bus.

I can understand why some people find such remixes upsetting, but despite what copyright law implies, we can’t own other’s thoughts. And certainly anyone writing in Silm fandom ought to be cognizant of the dangers of being too possessive of our creations!

But why then, don’t we do the same with the author of the canon source? Of course, there are many reasons not to ask an author that particular question. But it puts a lot of fairplay and understanding in the fannish circle while not doing the same for the author-fan relationship

A good question, and you’re right. It’s not one that is easily resolved. But I guess I’m looking at fannish circles as being social networks versus the realm of copyright and patent law.

Well, there have been previous “Annatar’s influence over the Gwaith-i-Mirdain” stories placed on archives well before I was sucked into the vortex of fan fiction. I think the authors would rightly say they were inspired to explore deeper into the source text just as I was. But our visions are extraordinarily different. More recently, a couple of “contemporaries” have been inspired by my visions, but each has acknowledged this. I am grateful for that courtesy. So that’s inspiration.

“Remix” as I see it, brings in much stronger parallels and obvious themes. For example, if someone wrote about a young smith working under the tutelage a scientifically astute and power-hungry master teacher, I’d assume that could be defined as a remix as you young whippersnappers call it ;^).

Randy (assuming this is the infamous Randy_O) gave an excellent example of a cinematic remix on his forum: The Magnificent Seven remixed from The Seven Samurai.

Otherwise, I think we are in perfect agreement. Credit for work that is not one’s own is considered correct and ethical behavior in the literary community–I don’t think fandom should be any exception–and while I agree with Oshun and Pandë’s point that it is polite (and usually very easy) to ask before borrowing another person’s work, I certainly don’t think it is the grave offense that some people in fandom make it out to be. (Nor do I think that they are saying that, for the record.) Sauce for the goose indeed!

It wasn’t just remixes. The objections were also to gapfillers, parodies, and the use of original characters and scenarios with attribution but without permission.

My reaction was, please — we borrow Tolkien’s work without asking and put our own spin on it, so how can we be upset if someone does the same to us? Sauce for the goose, y’know?

I always cite my sources of inspiration. If I want to stay on good terms with the original author, I ask permission. If not, I’m not so punctilious.

It is common courtesy within the framework of our little world to ask before borrowing from another’s work.

Yes. I agree with that – or rather, I work from the same standpoint. I admit that (since I’m a very slow writer and stories tend to spend a long time in my head before I write them down) I can never be quite sure of all the sources that influenced me along the way. But I always try to acknowledge people and ideas – whether fannish or “original”.

I think most of us would act like that. But why then, don’t we do the same with the author of the canon source? Of course, there are many reasons not to ask an author that particular question. But it puts a lot of fairplay and understanding in the fannish circle while not doing the same for the author-fan relationship. I fear, it’s an issue that cannot be resolved, but that doesn’t mean I have to be happy about it…